This interview has been edited for clarity and length.

The Unicorn Review: What are the biggest changes that you've seen in the cognac category overall, and has this affected how you’ve shepherded the Louis XIII brand during your time as cellar master?

Baptiste Loiseau: It has been quite a long journey. I took the [cellar master] position almost 12 years ago. What I want to push even further is to have people understand what makes cognac so different from other spirits in terms of quality, grapes, location, and terroir. What is key for me is that we help people understand that behind the big brand [Remy Martin], there are lots of different wine growers, master distillers, and coopers that help to maintain consistency.

We have begun a research program on how we will prepare the next generation of wine growers to face new challenges like climate change. My team and I try to understand what the future of the appellation will be in two ways. First, the raw materials and how we can maintain consistency with conditions that are different—more heat waves, et cetera. Second, how innovation can take us to another level and make the new generation better understand cognac.

The Future of Luxury Cognac

There's been a lot of news about the softening global spirits market, and some companies have pointed to cognac as being a particular challenge right now. How do you feel about the future of the category?

I was born and raised in the Cognac region, but I'm not from a family that made cognac. So I have seen the different cycles that we already faced, with ups and downs in terms of sales and number of hectares that have been planted. Cognac has always been here. We will find solutions, and even with all the strong head winds that we have against us in the next decade, we will still be here, and we will still make Remy Martin.

You have to understand what the origins are of these cycles. It’s not a question of doing things differently in terms of qualitative process, because we know that worldwide we have the savoir faire of winemaking and distillation. We have to make people understand that what we are making in Cognac is different in comparison to other spirits, and that cognac can be enjoyed in many different ways.

Obviously, Louis XIII is a very high-end expression, but consumer habits are changing. Do you see a difference in the way people are approaching this brand as opposed to more affordable Remy Martin expressions? Is there still a global desire for luxury brands?

There is always a global desire for iconic brands. Of course, the type of clients that we have for Remy Martin and for Louis XIII are different. What resonates among them is the understanding of what we are doing, the fact that we are even more demanding in the selection [of eaux-de-vie] for Louis XIII because it has to be a longer term vision on the approach. With Louis XIII, it is much more about the experience, pairing it with things like caviar. That makes the experience a little bit different, and maybe less less… how do you say… dusty. 

Age Statements Ain't Nothing But a Number

Louis XIII doesn’t have an age statement, something that whiskey drinkers are often looking for. So how do you talk to someone who's unfamiliar with the brand about what makes the liquid in the bottle special?

The best way to understand Louis XIII is to taste it, because for me an age statement is just a number. Cognac can be aged for 20 years in the wrong cask, and it might end up tasting like it’s five years old. I like to educate people by telling them it's not a question of numbers, it’s about taking the time to taste. It's not a question of whether the youngest eaux-de-vie has been aged for 35 or 45 years, that’s not my mission. My mission is to make it consistent. If one year I need some eaux-de-vie that are older than  what I was using the year before, or even younger, I will use them.

The role of the cellar master is to know the stock and know the cask. We say the average age range of Louis XIII is from 40 to 100 years. But if it's a little bit more some years or less other years, it's not something that we are going to talk about. Because at the end of the day, what's important is the final blend itself and the consistency in the sensation you have while you taste.

I think what could be of interest for the cognac category in the next year is maybe to come back to doing more vintages. At Remy Martin, we have already released three vintages. I have some vintages that, at the moment, are not ready. We are made from grapes, so we have a vintage effect like Armagnac and wine.

Blending is a Team Effort

Take me into the blending room for Louis XIII. How big is the panel? How many samples do you taste? 

We have 18 people in the tasting committee, but only three can lead the tasting and make the decision—myself, as the cellar master, and two women, Laura and Delphine. Laura is responsible for the estate and all the advice we give to the growers. Delphine manages sensory analysis. 

We work with almost 800 wine growers. Half of them make the wine, but don't have a pot still, so they send their wine to distilleries to distill for them. The other half grow grapes, make the wine, and distill. They give a twist to their production, trying to put their own feeling, emotion, and sense of terroir in the eaux-de-vie that they will present to the tasting committee.

In total, more than 1,000 samples of un-aged eaux-de-vie come to the tasting committee from November to mid-March. I see the very first step as the most crucial one, which is the detection of the potential of aging, of aromatic singularities that we are tasting during the distillation period. For each sample, we have two glasses, one neat and one reduced with water to express more aromas. It’s a blind tasting. We decide if the samples correspond with the house style. If not, we reject the sample and we go to see the grower to find a solution to explain why it doesn't correspond. If it's accepted by the tasting committee, we have a ranking process.

Is the process the same when you're tasting the aged eaux-de-vie? 

When it's a young eaux-de-vie, it's the same panel. But when it's much older, we are only five people. I have four experts besides me that help detect the differences or similarities.

I don't want 25 samples to be the same. Otherwise, everything gets accepted and you don't have diversity. What I like is when each sample is different. We code the samples to determine from the very beginning if they will be used for Remy Martin VSOP, XO, or Louis XIII. 

Relying on the Past, Looking to the Future

On the one hand, you're creating something that will ultimately be used by someone in the future. On the other hand, you're working with all these casks that were filled by someone else in the past. So it's this constant trade-off. How do you think about this?

For me, it's something that is disconnected in terms of our mission and the moment. When we are focusing on the un-aged eaux-de-vie, of course, we know that we are preparing for the future—not only me, but all the tasting team. When we detect an eaux-de-vie ranked in the top ten percent of Grand Champagne, we know that it will be used for Louis XIII. We all have the sensation when we make this decision that we are building the future of the house. But that's a moment that doesn't occur often. Less than one percent of the total samples that we taste that will be selected for Louis XIII.

Rare Cask

Can you talk about Rare Cask? How many releases have there been so far?

The approach is totally different. For Louis XIII, it’s all about consistency, but Rare Cask is about the singularity of one cask that the cellar master decides not to blend with others. Rare Cask is really much more of a personal approach. 2023 was only the third time in Louis XIII history that we released a Rare Cask, and for me [as cellar master] it was the very first time [two others were released in 2009 and 2013]. During the last ten years, I have identified new tiercons that could be candidates to be the next Rare Cask. The name of the current release is Rare Cask 42.1, because 42.1 is the ABV of the liquid inside this tiercon. Only 775 decanters have been released.

"Small Waters"

I wanted to end by asking you about the "petits eaux" (small waters) technique—putting water into a cask to draw out the spirit, and then using that very low-ABV water to proof down the cognac while it ages in the barrel. Some American whiskey distilleries, like Still Austin, use this technique as well. Is petits eaux widely used in the cognac industry?

It’s much more, I think, a practice that you find with small producers. Even some wine growers and master distillers that are working for Remy Martin have their own brand or they have their own stock and they make petits eaux. It’s not something that we do at Remy Martin because the way we manage casks is a little bit different. You also have to be cautious because when you go below a certain ABV,  it can damage the quality of what you have inside.

I think petits eaux is more about cask preservation. It doesn't impact the spirit qualitatively, but it can be interesting. Of course, you have to be cautious.